“I live in the podcast room now, I just sleep in my room,” joked Antonio Stridiron.

Stridiron and Zach Schmidkunz host Chainz 2 Changed, a podcast recorded at the North Dakota State Penitentiary (NDSP), the maximum-security prison in Bismarck where both men are currently incarcerated.

“And if you could sleep in the podcast room?” asked Lacie Zander, a unit manager at NDSP.

Stridiron laughed. “I would.”

On Chainz 2 Changed, Schmidkunz and Stridiron interview people who are or have been incarcerated as well as people working in corrections. Guests have included Zander, fellow residents at NDSP, and North Dakota Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation (DOCR) Director Colby Braun.

Although Stridiron jokes about “living” in the podcast room, both he and Schmidkunz also maintain full-time jobs at NDSP. They are mentors in U.N.I.T.Y. Village, a unique housing unit at NDSP in which mentors—incarcerated people over the age of 25 who are typically serving long or life sentences—offer guidance to young adults ages 18 to 25. The housing unit is the result of a partnership between the DOCR and Vera’s Restoring Promise initiative.

The objective

Schmidkunz and Stridiron—who have known each other for 16 years—started recording Chainz 2 Changed in August 2023 from a converted cell. Foam panels, which residents helped install, cover the room’s walls to help with soundproofing. A large dry-erase board mounted on the wall lists episodes planned for the podcast’s first season and ideas for upcoming interviews. Schmidkunz has scribbled a quote on the board: “Is what we are doing today making the world a better place??”

The hosts—and the DOCR—view the podcast as an opportunity to change public perceptions of people in prison.

“A lot of people don’t think that, when people come to prison, that they change,” said Stridiron. “People do try to change. There are people who learn from their mistakes and try to do better. They are remorseful, and they want to give back.”

Schmidkunz and Stridiron hope that sharing the stories of people in prison will encourage society to remove the barriers that people leaving prison face. Approximately 95 percent of people in state and federal prisons will someday leave and return to their communities, where they often confront challenges securing safe, stable housing and employment.

They lay this out in their first episode when Schmidkunz says to Stridiron, “Let’s work on getting rid of the stereotype that we are only what we did. We’re actually people trying to change our lives. Because, let’s face it, most of us in prison are gonna be out soon. . . . We’re gonna be everybody’s neighbors.”

“And what type of neighbor would you like to have?” Stridiron responds. “Someone who’s angry, stressed out, frustrated, felt deserted, felt cast aside? Or someone who is more happy, with a new perception on life? Someone who’s motivated to give back to the community—the community they harmed?”

Braun said the DOCR’s mission is to ensure that when people in prison return to their communities, they are better off than when they started their sentence. He views the podcast as an opportunity for people incarcerated at NDSP to share how they are investing in themselves and their community.

“The podcast provides real-life stories of what that means,” said Braun.

Zander also hopes the podcast will encourage listeners—including landlords and employers—to address barriers that people leaving prison face.

“The more that we can expose the public to what it’s like to be in prison and the changes that these guys are really working on, I think the community is going to be more willing to give everybody a second chance,” she said. “The more exposure we bring, the better outcomes we’re going to have.”

Six years in the making

Stridiron first came up with the idea of producing a podcast about life in prison six years ago. In 2022, he mentioned it to Schmidkunz, whom he credits with bringing the idea to fruition.

On the tablets the prison provides, Schmidkunz came across Ear Hustle, a podcast launched in 2017 out of California’s San Quentin State Prison. Noting that podcast’s sponsors—the state’s arts council and Prairie Public Broadcasting—Schmidkunz wrote letters to the North Dakota Council on the Arts and Prairie Public, simply asking for advice on how they could launch a podcast in prison.

“The next thing I knew, the [DOCR] director was down here on a tour with the Council on the Arts from North Dakota,” said Schmidkunz. The Council on the Arts wanted to help make the podcast a reality, and the DOCR was also on board.

The DOCR asked Schmidkunz to draft a business plan. Soon, Prairie Public and F5 Project, a local nonprofit that provides support services to formerly incarcerated people, also signed on. The Council on the Arts and Prairie Public provided a laptop, audio equipment, and production software. Adam Martin, CEO and founder of F5, trained the hosts on audio recording and production.

Chainz 2 Changed now releases episodes weekly. Schmidkunz and Stridiron manage every part of the process, from finding guests to editing episodes. So far, they’ve racked up almost 7,000 listens solely through word of mouth.

“That’s been very encouraging and inspiring, to know that thousands of people are listening to our stories,” said Stridiron.

“When it comes to corrections, the narrative is always told by staff, it’s told by the department,” said Zander. “This is such a unique opportunity for these guys to tell their own story through their own lens.”

In the process of recording episodes, Stridiron says he has learned more about other residents in the unit, including his co-host.

“You get to see that you’re not the only person that struggles with certain things, because some people do open up and talk about challenges that they’re also dealing with,” he said. “It’s like you’re helping and getting help at the same time, just from an interview.”

Recently, a listener reached out to them to get in touch with one of their guests—another mentor in U.N.I.T.Y. Village who talked about the challenges that led to his incarceration and the challenges he faced in prison. She asked him to write a letter and offer encouragement to her son, who is incarcerated.

“This is so amazing, to be able to do this in prison, and then to see the impact that it is already having,” said Stridiron. “You would never think that this is possible.”